15:00:38 <andreasn> #startmeeting Cockpit public meeting 2014-10-06
15:00:38 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Oct  6 15:00:38 2014 UTC.  The chair is andreasn. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:00:38 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
15:00:45 <andreasn> #meetingname Cockpit
15:00:45 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'cockpit'
15:00:53 <andreasn> #chair andreasn mvollmer stefw sgallagh
15:00:53 <zodbot> Current chairs: andreasn mvollmer sgallagh stefw
15:00:59 <andreasn> #topic Welcome
15:01:07 <andreasn> .hellomynameis andreasn
15:01:08 <zodbot> andreasn: andreasn 'Andreas Nilsson' <anilsson@redhat.com>
15:01:15 <mvollmer> .hellomyname is mvo
15:01:19 * stefw is here
15:01:20 <mvollmer> .hellomynameis mvo
15:01:21 <zodbot> mvollmer: mvo 'Marius Vollmer' <marius.vollmer@gmail.com>
15:01:34 <andreasn> .hellomynameis stefw
15:01:35 <zodbot> andreasn: stefw 'Stef Walter' <stefw@redhat.com>
15:01:45 <mvollmer> heh! :-)
15:01:55 <andreasn> #topic Agenda
15:02:20 <andreasn> * as mvollmer said, Fedora 21
15:02:22 <mvollmer> Fedora 21, GSSAPI, Modular arch, roadmap?
15:02:39 <andreasn> yeah
15:03:06 <andreasn> #info agenda is Fedora 21, GSSAPI, Modular arch, Roadmap
15:03:17 <andreasn> #topic Fedora 21
15:03:56 <mvollmer> I am running out of things to fix, stef is merging like a hero.
15:04:08 <stefw> still have a ways to go ...
15:04:11 <stefw> on merging
15:04:31 <mvollmer> yes, and there will be things to fix about the pull requests
15:04:42 <andreasn> there is quite a bunch of pull requests
15:04:55 <mvollmer> so, question: are we forgetting something important?
15:05:06 <andreasn> 4 of them are f21-proposed
15:05:23 <mvollmer> I would maybe look at #1176, and not much else
15:05:26 <stefw> sgallagh, do you have any feedback on anything missing for f21?
15:05:51 <mvollmer> andreasn, I think the pull request labels and milestones are not very consistent.
15:05:59 <andreasn> ah, ok
15:07:10 <mvollmer> what do we need to do outside of cockpit?
15:07:21 <mvollmer> NetworkManaer testing and release
15:07:34 <sgallagh> stefw: Sorry, wasn't following.
15:07:37 <sgallagh> One moment to read scrollback, please
15:07:40 <stefw> sure
15:09:16 <sgallagh> Ideally, I'd like the modular capabilities in sufficient shape that it might be feasible to add some domain-controller UI post-F21, but that's firmly a nice-to-have.
15:09:43 <mvollmer> sgallagh, how much time do we have?
15:10:06 <stefw> sgallagh, there's a slight chance these modular capabilities would land
15:10:09 <stefw> but more importantly
15:10:11 <stefw> they would not be stable
15:10:13 <mvollmer> sgallagh, I was thinking to wrap up Fedora 21 from our point of view in this week.
15:10:23 <stefw> and therefore any such domai-controller UI would be prototypical
15:10:28 <sgallagh> mvollmer: Oct 14th is Beta Freeze
15:10:38 <sgallagh> Like I said, firmly in the nice-to-have category.
15:10:39 <stefw> let me reword that
15:10:49 <stefw> there's a slight chance one branch towards the modular capabilities might land
15:11:04 <stefw> so unfortunately, although it would have been nice, we're likely going to have to skip on this
15:11:11 <mvollmer> sgallagh, so we'd need to have that by the end of this week, right?
15:11:52 <sgallagh> Yes
15:12:01 <mvollmer> right
15:12:24 <mvollmer> so, let's see. :-)
15:12:35 <mvollmer> everyone looks at stefw...
15:12:38 <stefw> heh
15:13:04 <andreasn> so if we can't land the modulization stuff for f21 anyway, might be better to focus on polish stuff
15:13:12 <andreasn> or start moving on to the next stage
15:13:42 <stefw> yup
15:14:27 <mvollmer> stefw, what do you think, first prio is merging/rejecting the pull requests we ave?
15:14:38 <stefw> yes
15:14:53 <mvollmer> yes, very good.
15:15:31 <mvollmer> then we make a release for F21 beta, and then we concentrate on the module stuff.
15:15:43 <andreasn> sounds good
15:16:09 <mvollmer> if we can make it happen without regressions, we can then see whether we feel comfortable about putting it into F21 stable.
15:16:16 <mvollmer> or just the copr.
15:16:43 <stefw> i would be uncomfortable merging even the first modular code branch into f21
15:16:57 <stefw> i would suggest we essentially stabilize f21 before we merge it
15:16:59 <stefw> even if we do have more time
15:17:01 <mvollmer> ok, much easier that way.
15:18:17 <andreasn> oh, right, the bot
15:18:43 <andreasn> #info no modularization work for f21
15:19:16 <andreasn> #info first priority is to merge the pull requests we have at https://github.com/cockpit-project/cockpit/pulls
15:19:33 <andreasn> cool
15:19:38 <andreasn> next topic?
15:19:40 <mvollmer> #info Cockpit release for Fedora 21 will be cut at the end of this week.
15:20:01 <andreasn> #topic GSSAPI
15:20:05 <mvollmer> #action everyone help stef with pull request review
15:20:19 <andreasn> sounds good
15:20:52 <mvollmer> I'll rebase everything and run VERIFY
15:21:13 <mvollmer> ok, GSSAPI?
15:21:45 <mvollmer> Can we advertise it for F21?
15:22:24 <andreasn> I have to admit I have no idea what gssapi is
15:22:29 <mvollmer> You can't log in as wheel with Kerberos, and you can't use really use Cockpit as non-hweel.
15:22:46 <andreasn> oh, is it the single-sign-on?
15:22:54 <stefw> i don't think we can advertise it
15:23:13 <stefw> but i like it being there since it lights a fire under people to actually fix the underlying platform bugs we have have listed.
15:23:20 <mvollmer> yes.
15:23:43 <stefw> sgallagh, does this affect our Fedora Server documentation or release notes?
15:23:55 <mvollmer> remoting via ssh doesn't work with SSO either, right?
15:23:56 <stefw> the fact that GSSAPI works, but actually doesn't (because no wheel)?
15:24:00 <andreasn> #info You can't log in as wheel with Kerberos, and you can't use really use Cockpit as non-hweel.
15:24:05 <stefw> mvollmer, yes, that branch has not been merged yet
15:24:13 <stefw> and needs rebasing, testing and fixing
15:24:21 <mvollmer> stefw, should we try to do that?
15:24:28 <stefw> yes, i think so
15:24:29 <mvollmer> to make the fire hotter?
15:24:33 <mvollmer> ok.
15:24:40 <stefw> it would be nice to get that into f21, again for the reason above
15:24:47 <stefw> so people can try out kerberos support
15:24:51 <sgallagh> stefw: We haven't made any statements about SSO at all
15:24:53 <andreasn> #info even though not everything works, it's a good motivator for others to fix underlying platform bugs
15:24:54 <stefw> and very easily reproduce the issues that don't work
15:24:57 <stefw> sgallagh, ok, good to know
15:25:02 <sgallagh> So I think continuing to not say anything is probably fine
15:25:05 <mvollmer> #info finish #1226 for Fedora 21.
15:25:58 <andreasn> is that a action for stefw or mvollmer, or both?
15:26:08 <mvollmer> both, I guess.
15:26:24 <mvollmer> tbh, I have ignored that pr mostly... :-/
15:26:31 <andreasn> #action mvollmer and stefw to finish #1226 for Fedora 21
15:26:50 <andreasn> great, next topic?
15:27:25 * mvollmer nods
15:27:40 <andreasn> #topic Modular architecture
15:28:13 <mvollmer> so, as discussed, I'd say it has low priority for this week
15:28:18 <andreasn> sure
15:28:27 <mvollmer> stefw, do you agree?
15:28:41 <stefw> low priority for a merge
15:28:48 <mvollmer> yes
15:28:52 <stefw> but a high priority to get it in a reviewable and discussable state
15:29:00 <stefw> too many people are waiting for this
15:29:13 <stefw> and soon it will become a road block in our path forward
15:29:18 <mvollmer> yes, but this week we really want to get F21 done. :-)
15:29:36 <stefw> indeed
15:29:37 <andreasn> #info won't merge this week, since we're focusing on F21
15:29:53 <andreasn> #info really important path forward though
15:29:54 <stefw> so for me that means working on the gssapi delegation pullreq
15:29:57 <stefw> and doing reviews
15:29:59 <mvollmer> next week, full speed on modular stuff
15:30:24 <mvollmer> yes
15:30:26 <andreasn> #info next week will be focus on modular arch
15:30:30 <andreasn> great!
15:30:53 <andreasn> next topic? (hope I'm not rushing things)
15:31:07 <stefw> no this is good
15:31:15 <mvollmer> agree
15:31:18 <andreasn> #topic Roadmap
15:31:34 <mvollmer> (this should be a regular topic every week)
15:31:47 <mvollmer> (and means: update the roadmap wiki page)
15:31:50 <andreasn> #info first roadmap now up at https://github.com/cockpit-project/cockpit/wiki/Roadmap
15:32:41 <mvollmer> ok, next four weeks:
15:32:49 <mvollmer> let's remove the second bullet.
15:33:00 <andreasn> is mount points merged?
15:33:20 <mvollmer> no, but it's in good shape and doesn't need to be pointed out, I'd say.
15:33:39 <andreasn> so likley to be merged this week?
15:33:53 <jscotka> stefw, mvollmer andreasn Hi, sorry for late coming at the meeting
15:33:57 <mvollmer> let's add "SSO enablers" and move "Modular architecture" to 4w.
15:33:58 <stefw> no worries
15:34:35 <andreasn> #info mount points fix in good shape to be merged soon. Can be removed from roadmap
15:34:44 <jscotka> something important was introduced today from QA side?
15:34:48 <mvollmer> I'll just do it live
15:35:04 <andreasn> #info SSO enablers and Modular architecture can be moved from the section 4 months to 4 weeks
15:35:20 <mvollmer> jscotka, let's add a topic to todays agenda.
15:35:46 <mvollmer> we'll quickly finish the roadmap polish, and then we can talk about QA.
15:35:53 <andreasn> sounds good
15:36:03 <jscotka> thanks
15:36:20 <mvollmer> so, atomic.
15:36:32 <mvollmer> i think we should have a go at it soonish.
15:36:37 <andreasn> is Embedding still in the right place on the roadmap?
15:36:53 <mvollmer> not sure...
15:37:09 <mvollmer> is it tied to the navigation redesign?
15:37:19 <andreasn> I think so. stefw?
15:37:24 <stefw> it is indeed
15:37:40 <stefw> embedded will arrive along with modular work
15:37:44 <stefw> and the two need to be considered together
15:37:51 <andreasn> so also 4 weeks actually?
15:38:00 <mvollmer> right
15:38:05 <mvollmer> navigation also?
15:38:07 <stefw> yes, for a initial work
15:38:08 <andreasn> yeah
15:38:15 <stefw> it would be nice if navigation did
15:38:23 <stefw> it would make life much simpler
15:38:26 <stefw> but it could be decopled
15:38:32 <mvollmer> then "4 months" is empty. :-)
15:38:42 <andreasn> #info move navigation and embedability to 4 weeks
15:39:02 <andreasn> lets fill that from 2 years then :)
15:39:08 <mvollmer> sounds like we need a more detailed plan of attack.
15:39:35 <andreasn> I have at least two things we need at "some point in the future"
15:39:48 <andreasn> better timers UI: https://github.com/cockpit-project/cockpit/issues/1297
15:40:10 <andreasn> Firewall support: https://github.com/cockpit-project/cockpit/issues/1297
15:40:19 <mvollmer> yeah,
15:40:22 <mvollmer> I make links..
15:40:45 <andreasn> we have a whole bunch of things under https://github.com/cockpit-project/cockpit/issues/1297
15:41:15 <andreasn> might be a good time to update patternfly for example after f21
15:41:41 <andreasn> ups, wrong link above https://github.com/cockpit-project/cockpit/labels/enhancement
15:41:45 <mvollmer> andreasn, is the link correct?  it only talks about cron.
15:41:49 <mvollmer> i see
15:41:59 <andreasn> patternfly update: https://github.com/cockpit-project/cockpit/issues/788
15:42:59 <andreasn> firewall support: https://github.com/cockpit-project/cockpit/issues/1094
15:43:16 <mvollmer> andreasn, could you sort those into the roadmap offline?
15:43:22 <andreasn> yep!
15:43:34 <mvollmer> and then we discuss that next week, or ad-hoc.
15:43:36 <andreasn> I'll put them under 2 years for now
15:43:53 <mvollmer> i have put patternfly under 4m now.
15:44:01 <andreasn> #action andreas to sort issues from https://github.com/cockpit-project/cockpit/labels/enhancement on to the roadmap page
15:44:12 <andreasn> sounds correct
15:44:42 <andreasn> so server roles under 4 months?
15:44:48 <mvollmer> sounds like it, no?
15:44:59 <jscotka> andreasn, Is there any future feature page, what is planned (like adding support for firewall as mentioned, or cron, or new one, like printers, etc) ?
15:45:02 <mvollmer> ahh, actually, maybe not.
15:45:16 <andreasn> jscotka: yes, here you go https://github.com/cockpit-project/cockpit/wiki/Roadmap
15:45:49 <jscotka> andreasn, thanks, it is exactly what I was searching for :-)
15:45:49 <mvollmer> ok, I think the 4w section is OK, so let's move on to QA, ok?
15:46:29 <andreasn> I would move Atomic stuff from 4 weeks to 4 months
15:46:40 <andreasn> but anyway, yeah, next topic
15:46:47 <andreasn> #topic Q&A
15:47:02 <mvollmer> andreasn, yeah, agreed.
15:47:33 <mvollmer> cool navigation redesign is coming!
15:47:53 <andreasn> yesss
15:48:07 <jscotka> I'm looking forward
15:48:13 * mvollmer makes complicated secret hadn shake with andreasn
15:48:19 <andreasn> hehe
15:48:51 <andreasn> so, what do we have for Q&A?
15:49:07 <mvollmer> no, "QA"
15:49:13 <mvollmer> Quality Assurance
15:49:21 <mvollmer> :-)
15:49:45 <jscotka> sounds better :-) Q&A sound like questions & answers
15:49:48 <andreasn> oh, right
15:49:50 <mvollmer> jscotka, so you are getting up to speed?
15:49:53 <andreasn> sorry
15:49:55 <andreasn> #topic QA
15:50:35 <jscotka> but I need some Questions :-) where are stored your #xy logs?
15:50:54 <stefw> our IRC logs?
15:51:01 <stefw> andreasn will send them around after the meeting
15:51:12 <jscotka> yes, ah  okay
15:51:20 <sgallagh> #undo
15:51:20 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Topic object at 0x2bbc8d90>
15:51:22 <sgallagh> #undo
15:51:22 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Topic object at 0x29ecac10>
15:51:28 <sgallagh> #topic QA
15:51:44 <jscotka> so it is not somewhere sent automatically
15:51:48 <andreasn> thanks sgallagh!
15:52:36 <andreasn> the meeting logs get stored here http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/cockpit/
15:53:16 <jscotka> I'll plan to integrate your current testsuite to internal testing infrastructure as first step.
15:54:15 <mvollmer> jscotka, we currently run the tests only manually.
15:54:16 <jscotka> thanks for link to meetbot
15:54:45 <mvollmer> and we would like to run them automatically for each github pullrequest
15:54:48 <stefw> indeed
15:54:53 <mvollmer> and publish the results
15:55:04 <mvollmer> can the internal infrstructure do that?
15:55:05 <jscotka> I'll create it beaker compliant
15:55:10 <andreasn> #info jscotka will intergrate the current cockpit test suite to the interal RH testing infrastructure as a first step
15:55:46 <mvollmer> beaker means testing on bare metal, right?
15:56:06 <jscotka> mvollmer, on various HW bare metal and virt as well
15:56:14 <mvollmer> ok
15:56:47 <mvollmer> so, can we publish the results?
15:56:51 <jscotka> It should also help me to find how it works now
15:57:23 <stefw> right
15:57:23 <jscotka> mvollmer, it would be possible  without problems
15:57:28 <mvollmer> ok, nice!
15:58:41 <mvollmer> so we hear from you how it is going, right?
15:58:41 <jscotka> how is testsute scheduled now? manually via make test? or is it internal part of build process?
15:58:58 <stefw> we run it manually
15:59:03 <stefw> during our work process
15:59:03 <mvollmer> there is also travis
15:59:05 <stefw> on our own machines
15:59:08 <stefw> there is 'make check'
15:59:11 <stefw> which is unit tests
15:59:19 <stefw> that is scheduled automaticalcly via a github.com pull request
15:59:21 <jscotka> okay,
15:59:24 <stefw> the integration test suite
15:59:26 <stefw> does not run automatically
15:59:42 <stefw> but the end goal would be to have it run automatically for each github.com pull request
15:59:48 <stefw> and or update to a pull request
16:00:00 <stefw> similar to how travis works for us right now, with the unit test suite
16:00:00 <mvollmer> just like travis, basically.
16:00:10 <andreasn> #info end goal would be for the test suite to run for each github.com pull request
16:00:47 <jscotka> yes, I'll plan also to do it as part of our internal contionous integration project and results could be exported somewhere.
16:01:15 <mvollmer> jscotka, puiterwijk has been working on this in the past.  you could contact him.
16:01:42 <jscotka> mvollmer, thanks I'll do.
16:02:00 <andreasn> #action jscotka to contact puiterwijk, who's been working on this in the past
16:02:07 <jscotka> how long running testsuite  takes now?
16:02:24 <stefw> several minutes, if done in parallel
16:02:32 <stefw> using the TEST_JOBS=4 environment variable
16:02:39 <mvollmer> on one core, maybe 15 minutes?
16:02:42 <stefw> but it can take about 15 minutes if TEST_JOBS is not defined
16:02:49 <jscotka> andreasn, It is so fast, so it is perfect
16:03:13 <mvollmer> jscotka, it is still small, but it should grow! :-)
16:03:22 <stefw> it doesn't feel fast to me when waiting on it :)
16:03:33 <jscotka> andreasn, I have to learn how to work with your hashtags  syntax :-)
16:03:58 <andreasn> it's for the meeting minutes
16:05:23 <mvollmer> jscotka, ok, so you are happy for now?  Anything else to discuss now?
16:05:35 <jscotka> mvollmer, is there any possibility to automate also webUI tasks? I know that there is possible to use frameworks like seleniun-ish, but it is possible to do it via curl (with some stored secret cookie or another session storing abilities)?
16:05:45 <jscotka> mvollmer, yes I'm happy :-)
16:05:49 <stefw> we use phantomjs
16:05:55 <stefw> and sometimes ucrl
16:05:56 <stefw> curl
16:06:04 <jscotka> stefw, perfect
16:06:16 <stefw> most of our test suite revolves around automating web ui tasks
16:06:27 <stefw> the integration test suite that is ^^
16:06:30 <mvollmer> very racy stuff...
16:06:47 <stefw> most of the *unit* test suite revolves around testing backend logic, javascript internals, etc..
16:06:59 <jscotka> mvollmer, stefw mvollmer for now it is everything. Too much info for now :-)
16:07:03 <stefw> heh
16:07:06 <mvollmer> ok!
16:07:10 <mvollmer> one more thing, though!
16:07:41 <mvollmer> jscotka, we have some abstractions in place that might suit you:
16:08:04 <mvollmer> (hmm, how do I put this briefly.)
16:08:24 <mvollmer> we had planned to run the tests on either local vms or remote openstack instances
16:08:38 <mvollmer> so maybe you can hook into that when running things on beaker.
16:08:56 <mvollmer> just to keep in mind that there is already something in the code that might do this.
16:09:00 <jscotka> mvollmer, perfect, I hope that in next 2 weeks I'll understand that
16:09:07 <mvollmer> when you get to it, just ask again for the details.
16:09:29 <jscotka> mvollmer, thanks a lot
16:09:59 <jscotka> nowadays I undestand Cockpit only from user side :-)
16:10:25 <andreasn> all right, we're 10 past the hour. Anything else for the meeting?
16:10:50 * mvollmer puts down pencil.
16:11:04 <andreasn> all right
16:11:11 * jscotka leaving&eating :-)
16:11:20 <mvollmer> enjoy!
16:11:22 <andreasn> thanks everyone for your time!
16:11:27 <andreasn> #endmeeting